A Theological Discussion in Istanbul
I had a layover of about 4 hours in Istanbul on my way back from Pittsburgh to Mumbai. There were other Indians connecting to the Mumbai flight from various points in Europe. We were looking at the display trying to figure out which gate our flight would be leaving from.
A rather nervous looking middle-aged gentleman greeted me as an obvious fellow Indian and suggested we find our way to the gate together. I agreed. The gate was quite far away but there were signs pointing the way and I wasn't worried about getting there well on time. He, on the other hand, seemed to be in the grip of the chronic anxiety that seems to seize many Indians in unfamiliar surroundings. He was walking much faster than I was inclined to and I let him go at his own pace. He would pull ahead, look around and find himself alone, get into a mild panic and then come back to find me.
He had a constant fear of losing his way. He kept saying 'are you sure this is the way?' How do you know?' 'Shouldn't we ask someone?' I kept reassuring him that we were following the signs and would get to the gate without mishap.
At the gate itself, although the display was clearly showing that the flight would be boarding from there, he was again beset by anxiety and insisted on going to the Turkish Airways staff and confirming that he was at the right place. He then seated himself next to me and started the usual sequence of questions that Indians greet each other with. 'Where are from?' 'Where are you coming from?''Are you married?''How many children do you have?' He then progressed to 'what religion do you follow?'
'None', I said. He was horrified. 'What do you mean 'none'?' 'Don't you believe in God?'
'I don't believe in Gods, Souls, Creators or any other supernatural thing' I said.
'We must talk about this', he said. 'I will convince you that there is only one true religion.'
He then proceeded to tell me a series of anecdotes which, he said, would prove beyond doubt that there is only one true religion.
Anecdote No. 1
'I am a school teacher', he said. 'There was a lady I knew in our village who did not have water. I wanted to help her. I decided to give her $500 to help her dig a bore-well in her backyard. I had the money with me in my bag. Unfortunately, one of the students stole my bag with the money. I was very sad. I prayed to God. I asked him why he let such a thing happen. I wanted to do a good deed and he did not let me do that good deed. I prayed to him to return the bag. Nothing happened. Many months later, after I had forgotten about this, I bought a lottery ticket. You will not believe this but I won $500 in the lottery. You see, God always has a plan.'
I pointed out that a simpler plan would have been to avoid the theft in the first place. Then the lady would have got the bore well many months earlier. He would have had the opportunity to pray for something else and someone else could have won the lottery and done something else useful with $500 and the thief would not have enjoyed the fruits of his crime.
Seeing that I was unconvinced, he moved on to his next anecdote.
Anecdote No. 2
'There was a lady from a very rich family. She had a traffic accident and hurt her back. She had severe pain in the back and was bedridden. She was Muslim so she prayed regularly to Allah to relieve her suffering. Nothing happened. Her parents died of old age. Her husband left her. She was all alone. One day, Jesus appeared before her and said 'you are healed'. Stand up and come to me. She crawled out of bed and reached Jesus and held his hand. She did not seem to be healed but over the next few months, she became gradually more and more mobile and Jesus visited her many times and now she can walk. She changed her religion and wrote a book about her experience. It's a miracle.'
I pointed out that it may have been simpler for Jesus to have helped her avoid the accident in the first place and that I wished he would help all people with back problems whether or not they prayed to him.
I was getting a bit nervous at this point. He was talking quite loudly and people sitting nearby were listening intently to what he was saying. There is blasphemy law in Turkey. It's relatively mild. "Any person who openly disrespects the religious belief of a group is punished with imprisonment from six months to one year if such act causes potential risk for public peace."
Hopefully they would only arrest him but you never know. Religious people tend to feel much more threatened by an atheist than by someone from another religion.
He told me 'Jesus died for your sins.' I asked him 'so does that mean that it's okay to commit any sins that I'm inclined to commit since they've already been suffered for? He was somewhat nonplussed before mumbling 'that's not how it works.'
He then moved on to anecdote 3 which he considered the clinching argument.
Anecdote No. 3
'I was living in Chicago. Like most American bathrooms, the plumbing was fairly primitive. My bathtub was chronically clogged up. Every time I had a bath, I had to use a bucket to empty the bathtub. I was miserable. I started praying to God to relieve me of this misery. I prayed for many months but nothing happened. Then one day I returned home to find that my daughter had finally called the plumber and fixed the bath. I was so grateful to God for this miracle.'
I pointed out that he could have called the plumber himself instead of praying for so many months. He looked horrified:"do you know how much plumbers charge in the US?" "Perhaps you should have prayed to your daughter instead", I said "you would probably have got a quicker response."
Fortunately he was not next to me on the flight.
A rather nervous looking middle-aged gentleman greeted me as an obvious fellow Indian and suggested we find our way to the gate together. I agreed. The gate was quite far away but there were signs pointing the way and I wasn't worried about getting there well on time. He, on the other hand, seemed to be in the grip of the chronic anxiety that seems to seize many Indians in unfamiliar surroundings. He was walking much faster than I was inclined to and I let him go at his own pace. He would pull ahead, look around and find himself alone, get into a mild panic and then come back to find me.
He had a constant fear of losing his way. He kept saying 'are you sure this is the way?' How do you know?' 'Shouldn't we ask someone?' I kept reassuring him that we were following the signs and would get to the gate without mishap.
At the gate itself, although the display was clearly showing that the flight would be boarding from there, he was again beset by anxiety and insisted on going to the Turkish Airways staff and confirming that he was at the right place. He then seated himself next to me and started the usual sequence of questions that Indians greet each other with. 'Where are from?' 'Where are you coming from?''Are you married?''How many children do you have?' He then progressed to 'what religion do you follow?'
'None', I said. He was horrified. 'What do you mean 'none'?' 'Don't you believe in God?'
'I don't believe in Gods, Souls, Creators or any other supernatural thing' I said.
'We must talk about this', he said. 'I will convince you that there is only one true religion.'
He then proceeded to tell me a series of anecdotes which, he said, would prove beyond doubt that there is only one true religion.
Anecdote No. 1
'I am a school teacher', he said. 'There was a lady I knew in our village who did not have water. I wanted to help her. I decided to give her $500 to help her dig a bore-well in her backyard. I had the money with me in my bag. Unfortunately, one of the students stole my bag with the money. I was very sad. I prayed to God. I asked him why he let such a thing happen. I wanted to do a good deed and he did not let me do that good deed. I prayed to him to return the bag. Nothing happened. Many months later, after I had forgotten about this, I bought a lottery ticket. You will not believe this but I won $500 in the lottery. You see, God always has a plan.'
I pointed out that a simpler plan would have been to avoid the theft in the first place. Then the lady would have got the bore well many months earlier. He would have had the opportunity to pray for something else and someone else could have won the lottery and done something else useful with $500 and the thief would not have enjoyed the fruits of his crime.
Seeing that I was unconvinced, he moved on to his next anecdote.
Anecdote No. 2
'There was a lady from a very rich family. She had a traffic accident and hurt her back. She had severe pain in the back and was bedridden. She was Muslim so she prayed regularly to Allah to relieve her suffering. Nothing happened. Her parents died of old age. Her husband left her. She was all alone. One day, Jesus appeared before her and said 'you are healed'. Stand up and come to me. She crawled out of bed and reached Jesus and held his hand. She did not seem to be healed but over the next few months, she became gradually more and more mobile and Jesus visited her many times and now she can walk. She changed her religion and wrote a book about her experience. It's a miracle.'
I pointed out that it may have been simpler for Jesus to have helped her avoid the accident in the first place and that I wished he would help all people with back problems whether or not they prayed to him.
I was getting a bit nervous at this point. He was talking quite loudly and people sitting nearby were listening intently to what he was saying. There is blasphemy law in Turkey. It's relatively mild. "Any person who openly disrespects the religious belief of a group is punished with imprisonment from six months to one year if such act causes potential risk for public peace."
Hopefully they would only arrest him but you never know. Religious people tend to feel much more threatened by an atheist than by someone from another religion.
He told me 'Jesus died for your sins.' I asked him 'so does that mean that it's okay to commit any sins that I'm inclined to commit since they've already been suffered for? He was somewhat nonplussed before mumbling 'that's not how it works.'
He then moved on to anecdote 3 which he considered the clinching argument.
Anecdote No. 3
'I was living in Chicago. Like most American bathrooms, the plumbing was fairly primitive. My bathtub was chronically clogged up. Every time I had a bath, I had to use a bucket to empty the bathtub. I was miserable. I started praying to God to relieve me of this misery. I prayed for many months but nothing happened. Then one day I returned home to find that my daughter had finally called the plumber and fixed the bath. I was so grateful to God for this miracle.'
I pointed out that he could have called the plumber himself instead of praying for so many months. He looked horrified:"do you know how much plumbers charge in the US?" "Perhaps you should have prayed to your daughter instead", I said "you would probably have got a quicker response."
Fortunately he was not next to me on the flight.
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